{"id":331725,"date":"2024-07-03T00:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-07-02T22:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/nezarazene\/debata-nemecke-autoky-vereny-kessler-a-publicistky-klary-vlasakove\/"},"modified":"2024-07-03T00:00:00","modified_gmt":"2024-07-02T22:00:00","slug":"debata-nemecke-autoky-vereny-kessler-a-publicistky-klary-vlasakove","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/rozhovor\/debata-nemecke-autoky-vereny-kessler-a-publicistky-klary-vlasakove\/","title":{"rendered":"Debata n\u011bmeck\u00e9 autorky Vereny Kessler a publicistky Kl\u00e1ry Vlas\u00e1kov\u00e9"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Knihy <a title=\"Eva\" href=\"https:\/\/www.knihcentrum.cz\/eva-5\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><span style=\"color: #1b3f75;\"><strong>Eva<\/strong><\/span><\/a> a <a title=\"T\u011bla\" href=\"https:\/\/www.knihcentrum.cz\/tela-2\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><span style=\"color: #1b3f75;\"><strong>T\u011bla<\/strong><\/span><\/a>, posledn&iacute; knihy <a title=\"Kl&aacute;ra Vlas&aacute;kov&aacute;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.knihcentrum.cz\/autor\/klara-vlasakova\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><span style=\"color: #1b3f75;\"><strong>Kl&aacute;ry Vlas&aacute;kov&eacute;<\/strong><\/span><\/a> a <a title=\"Verena Kessler\" href=\"https:\/\/www.knihcentrum.cz\/autor\/verena-kesslerova\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><span style=\"color: #1b3f75;\"><strong>Vereny Kessler<\/strong><\/span><\/a> poj&iacute; velice citliv&eacute;, osobn&iacute; a zat&iacute;m docela neprozkouman&eacute; pole, a to sice t&eacute;ma mate\u0159stv&iacute;. Ob\u011b knihy o n\u011bm pojedn&aacute;vaj&iacute;, by\u0165 z&nbsp;&uacute;pln\u011b jin&yacute;ch &uacute;hl\u016f.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong>Zapl\u0148uj&iacute; autorky p&iacute;&scaron;&iacute;c&iacute; o mate\u0159stv&iacute; n\u011bjakou tematickou d&iacute;ru v&nbsp;literatu\u0159e? <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Verena:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Mate\u0159stv&iacute; kdysi nikdo nebral moc v&aacute;\u017en\u011b, bylo to velice priv&aacute;tn&iacute; t&eacute;ma, nikdo se k&nbsp;tomu moc nevyjad\u0159oval. M&aacute;m tak&eacute; pocit, \u017ee za\u010d&iacute;n&aacute; ur\u010dit&aacute; vlna. Je to trend, mysl&iacute;m, \u017ee to tak z\u016fstane, je to existenci&aacute;ln&iacute; t&eacute;ma.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Nemysl&iacute;m si, \u017ee mate\u0159stv&iacute; je t&eacute;ma, co by tady bylo nov\u011b, v&nbsp;literatu\u0159e v\u017edycky bylo, ale sp&iacute;&scaron;e je ot&aacute;zka, jak&yacute;m zp\u016fsobem se o tom v&nbsp;literatu\u0159e referovalo. Pokud si vezmeme celou \u0159adu klasick&yacute;ch knih, tak je to n\u011bco, o \u010dem se nemus&iacute; p\u0159&iacute;li&scaron; debatovat, proto\u017ee to t\u0159eba v&nbsp;tom rodinn&eacute;m kosmu dan&eacute; beletrii funguje. Tady se shodnu s&nbsp;Verenou, \u017ee \u010dasto to bylo br&aacute;no jako priv&aacute;tn&iacute; t&eacute;ma a nem\u011blo by b&yacute;t tak vid\u011bt, proto\u017ee si to ka\u017ed&aacute; rodina \u0159e&scaron;&iacute; sama. Mysl&iacute;m si, \u017ee te\u010f jsme v&nbsp;takov&eacute;m zaj&iacute;mav&eacute;m zlomu, kdy se tato tzv. priv&aacute;tn&iacute; t&eacute;mata st&aacute;vaj&iacute; v&iacute;c a v&iacute;c ve\u0159ejn&yacute;mi.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Mate\u0159stv&iacute; se dlouho r&aacute;movalo (nejen v&nbsp;literatu\u0159e, ale i kultu\u0159e jako takov&eacute;) jako n&aacute;dhern&aacute; zku&scaron;enost, kterou ka\u017ed&aacute; \u017eena chce a mus&iacute; za\u017e&iacute;t, a ur\u010dit\u011b to tak i m\u016f\u017ee b&yacute;t. Z&aacute;rove\u0148 jsou ale matky vy\u010derpan&eacute;, frustrovan&eacute; a \u010dasto zoufal&eacute;. A v&nbsp;mate\u0159stv&iacute; se poj&iacute; oba tyto p&oacute;ly, tak\u017ee m\u011b zaj&iacute;m&aacute;, jestli podle v&aacute;s literatura posledn&iacute;ch let p\u0159episuje tento jednodimenzion&aacute;ln&iacute; p\u0159&iacute;b\u011bh, kter&yacute; si o mate\u0159stv&iacute; jako spole\u010dnost vypr&aacute;v&iacute;me, jestli u\u017e dok&aacute;\u017ee zachytit i jinou &scaron;k&aacute;lu emoc&iacute;.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Verena:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">J&aacute; jsem je&scaron;t\u011b vyr\u016fstala s&nbsp;p\u0159edstavou, \u017ee mate\u0159stv&iacute; je sen ka\u017ed&eacute; \u017eeny, \u017ee bude v&scaron;e b&aacute;je\u010dn&eacute; a n&aacute;dhern&eacute;. A te\u010f se objevuj&iacute; ty knihy, v&iacute;ce se o tom hovo\u0159&iacute;, p&iacute;&scaron;ou se \u010dl&aacute;nky, co to d\u011bl&aacute; s&nbsp;\u017eensk&yacute;m t\u011blem, tak&eacute; o rozhodnut&iacute; \u017eeny m&iacute;t nebo nem&iacute;t d&iacute;t\u011b &ndash; to se v&scaron;echno objevuje a mysl&iacute;m, \u017ee na&scaron;e generace mo\u017en&aacute; jako prvn&iacute; se tomu tak v\u011bnuje.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Ned&aacute; se \u0159&iacute;ct, \u017ee by se to t&eacute;ma neobjevovalo u p\u0159edchoz&iacute;ch generac&iacute;, ale to t&eacute;ma p\u0159ece jen bylo \u0159&iacute;d\u010deji. Mysl&iacute;m si, \u017ee mate\u0159stv&iacute; je sou\u010d&aacute;st n\u011bjak&eacute;ho celistv\u011bj&scaron;&iacute;ho t&eacute;matu p&eacute;\u010de, kter&eacute; je \u010dasto kulturn\u011b sv&aacute;z&aacute;no s&nbsp;\u017eenami. \u017densk&aacute; zku&scaron;enost nen&iacute; v&nbsp;literatu\u0159e n\u011bco, co bychom brali jako n\u011bco univerz&aacute;ln&iacute;ho, \u010dasto \u0159&iacute;k&aacute;me: <em>aha, to je ta \u017eensk&aacute; literatura, to \u017eensk&eacute; t&eacute;ma<\/em>. J&aacute; jako autorka \u010dasto dost&aacute;v&aacute;m ot&aacute;zku: <em>pro\u010d jste se rozhodla ps&aacute;t o t&eacute;hle \u017eensk&eacute; hrdince<\/em> a mysl&iacute;m si, \u017ee takovou ot&aacute;zku auto\u0159i nedost&aacute;vaj&iacute; tak \u010dasto, \u017ee by se jich novin&aacute;\u0159i ptali, pro\u010d jste se rozhodl ps&aacute;t o mu\u017esk&eacute;m hrdinovi. V&nbsp;um\u011bn&iacute; st&aacute;le \u010dasto plat&iacute;, \u017ee to mu\u017esk&eacute; rovn&aacute; se univerz&aacute;ln&iacute;, to \u017eensk&eacute; je n\u011b\u010d&iacute;m specifick&eacute;. M&eacute; p\u0159&aacute;n&iacute; do budoucna je, aby se \u017eensk&aacute; zku&scaron;enost brala jako sou\u010d&aacute;st toho univerz&aacute;ln&iacute;ho, lidsk&eacute;ho. Nejv\u011bt&scaron;&iacute; s&iacute;la um\u011bn&iacute; je, \u017ee to m\u016f\u017eeme sd&iacute;let a diskutovat tady o tom.<\/span><br \/><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong>Kdy bude vlna knih o otcovstv&iacute;? M&aacute;m pocit, \u017ee tu jsme nezaznamenali. Vereno, nev&iacute;m, jestli v&nbsp;N\u011bmecku m&aacute;te knihy psan&eacute; z&nbsp;perspektivy mu\u017ee a toho, jak on vn&iacute;m&aacute; rodi\u010dovstv&iacute; a otcovstv&iacute;?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Verena:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">V&nbsp;N\u011bmecku existuje blog, kde auto\u0159i p&iacute;&scaron;&iacute; o rodi\u010dovstv&iacute;. M&aacute;m pocit, \u017ee i v&nbsp;N\u011bmecku se t&eacute;matem rodi\u010dovstv&iacute; zab&yacute;vaj&iacute; p\u0159edev&scaron;&iacute;m \u017eeny.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">My v&nbsp;\u010cesku ty knihy m&aacute;me, ale dost obvykle je to vztah star&scaron;&iacute;ho syna s&nbsp;otcem, a\u0165 je to rom&aacute;n <a title=\"Emil Hakl: O rodi\u010d&iacute;ch a d\u011btech\" href=\"https:\/\/www.knihcentrum.cz\/o-rodicich-a-detech-1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener noreferrer\"><span style=\"color: #1b3f75;\"><strong>Emila Hakla O rodi\u010d&iacute;ch a d\u011btech<\/strong><\/span><\/a> nebo t\u0159eba Balab&aacute;novy texty&hellip; Mysl&iacute;m, \u017ee kdy\u017e v&nbsp;\u010cesku se st&aacute;v&aacute; otcovstv&iacute; hlavn&iacute;m t&eacute;matem textu, tak je to sp&iacute;&scaron; v&nbsp;humorn&eacute; rovin\u011b, kde se sm\u011bjeme tomu, jak to tomu t&yacute;pkovi nejde, proto\u017ee na to nem&aacute; ty geny, \u017ee to sp&iacute;&scaron; tenduje k&nbsp;esencialismu, \u017ee \u017eeny jsou k&nbsp;p&eacute;\u010di o d\u011bti p\u0159&iacute;rodn\u011b vybaven&eacute;, co\u017e t\u011b\u017eko s&nbsp;t&iacute;m souhlasit&hellip; Ale mysl&iacute;m si, \u017ee se to postupn\u011b m\u011bn&iacute;, \u017ee se z&nbsp;toho st&aacute;v&aacute; obvykl&aacute; v\u011bc a je vid\u011bt ten genera\u010dn&iacute; posun. \u010cetla jsem n\u011bjakou statistiku americk&eacute;ho rodi\u010dovstv&iacute;, kde otcov&eacute; tr&aacute;v&iacute; mnohon&aacute;sobn\u011b v&iacute;ce \u010dasu se sv&yacute;mi d\u011btmi, proto\u017ee klasick&yacute; model, kdy \u017eena z\u016fst&aacute;v&aacute; doma a mu\u017e chod&iacute; do pr&aacute;ce se rozst\u0159elil vlastn\u011b i kv\u016fli tomu, \u017ee rodina z&nbsp;jednoho platu nevy\u017eije. Tak\u017ee v&nbsp;okam\u017eiku, kdy se tam dost&aacute;v&aacute; i tato ekonomick&aacute; nutnost, tak oba rodi\u010de pak sd&iacute;lej&iacute; jak ty pracovn&iacute;, tak i pe\u010duj&iacute;c&iacute; povinnosti.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><img decoding=\"async\" style=\"max-width: 349px; float: left; margin: 5px 10px 5px 10px;\" src=\"\/content\/images\/uploaded\/1716807164683-001.jpg\" width=\"NaN\" height=\"auto\" alt=\"\" title=\"\"><br \/>Pokud diskutujeme o tom, jestli mate\u0159stv&iacute; je nebo nen&iacute; trendem v&nbsp;literatu\u0159e posledn&iacute;ch let, tak asi neoddiskutovateln&yacute;m trendem je \u017e&aacute;nr autofikce, a\u0165 u\u017e s&nbsp;t&iacute;m souhlas&iacute;me \u010di ne, ve vzduchu to zkr&aacute;tka je. Zaj&iacute;m&aacute; m\u011b, jestli mate\u0159stv&iacute; je ide&aacute;ln&iacute;m t&eacute;matem, kter&eacute; se d&aacute; autofik\u010dn\u011b prozkoum&aacute;v&aacute;t&hellip;<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: left;\"><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Verena:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Mohu \u0159&iacute;ct, \u017ee jsem z&nbsp;autofikc&iacute; profitovala, j&aacute; nejsem m&aacute;ma, \u010detla jsem autofikce a d&iacute;ky tomu jsem m\u011bla pocit, \u017ee o tom opravdu hodn\u011b v&iacute;m. Pochopiteln\u011b se \u010dlov\u011bk leccos dozv&iacute; p\u0159i rozhovorech s&nbsp;p\u0159&iacute;telkyn\u011bmi, sestrami, maminkou. P\u0159i psan&iacute; mi to hodn\u011b pomohlo. P\u0159esto si mysl&iacute;m, \u017ee takov&aacute; literatura nemus&iacute; b&yacute;t autofik\u010dn&iacute;, lze se k&nbsp;tomu dopracovat p\u0159es re&scaron;er&scaron;e nebo klasick&yacute;m v\u017eit&iacute;m se do druh&eacute;ho, co\u017e v&nbsp;literatu\u0159e na toto t&eacute;ma je \u010dast&eacute;.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">J&aacute; si taky mysl&iacute;m, \u017ee nen&iacute; nutn&eacute;, aby o mate\u0159sk&eacute; zku&scaron;enosti psal n\u011bkdo, kdo si mate\u0159stv&iacute;m proch&aacute;z&iacute; nebo pro&scaron;el. To by vlastn\u011b um\u011blecky znamenalo, \u017ee autor m\u016f\u017ee um\u011blecky zpracovat zku&scaron;enost, kterou s&aacute;m m&aacute;, co\u017e by znamenalo, \u017ee si ten um\u011bleck&yacute; vhled z&uacute;\u017e&iacute;me. Jsem i velk&aacute; zast&aacute;nkyn\u011b toho, abychom m\u011bnili gendery v&nbsp;literatu\u0159e, abychom psali za r\u016fzn&eacute; postavy. Um\u0159ela bych nudou, kdybych musela ps&aacute;t jen postavy sv&eacute; generace nebo kter&eacute; se mi n\u011bjak&yacute;m zp\u016fsobem podobaj&iacute;.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong>Poj\u010fme k&nbsp;va&scaron;im knih&aacute;m. Vereno, ta va&scaron;e nahl&iacute;\u017e&iacute; na ot&aacute;zku mate\u0159stv&iacute; ze \u010dty\u0159 &uacute;hl\u016f, z&nbsp;pohledu \u017eeny, kter&aacute; chce ot\u011bhotn\u011bt a neda\u0159&iacute; se j&iacute; to, z&nbsp;pohledu u\u010ditelky a aktivistky, kter&aacute; d\u011bti nechce m&iacute;t z&nbsp;etick&yacute;ch a ekologick&yacute;ch d\u016fvod\u016f, dal&scaron;&iacute; \u017eena matkou je, a tak trochu j&iacute; tou\u017e&iacute; neb&yacute;t proto, \u017ee je to tak n&aacute;ro\u010dn&eacute;, a \u010dtvrt&aacute; hrdinka o d&iacute;t\u011b p\u0159i&scaron;la kv\u016fli nemoci. V&nbsp;p\u0159&iacute;b\u011bhu u\u010ditelky tematizujete i nen&aacute;vist, kter&aacute; se na ni vyvalila pot&eacute;, co ve\u0159ejn\u011b pojmenovala v&nbsp;\u010dl&aacute;nku a potom i ve sv&yacute;ch vystoupen&iacute;ch, \u017ee si vlastn\u011b mysl&iacute;, \u017ee m&iacute;t d\u011bti v&nbsp;tomto stavu planety u\u017e nen&iacute; etick&eacute; a spr&aacute;vn&eacute;. Jak&aacute; v&nbsp;N\u011bmecku na to byla reakce, proto\u017ee u n&aacute;s tohle vytv&aacute;\u0159&iacute; docela kontroverzn&iacute; tematick&yacute; koktejl &ndash; mate\u0159stv&iacute;, feminismus, ekologick&eacute; ot&aacute;zky&hellip; tohle v&scaron;echno jsou i ve statistik&aacute;ch nejcitliv\u011bj&scaron;&iacute; t&eacute;mata, kter&yacute;mi se m\u016f\u017eete zab&yacute;vat a\u0165 u\u017e jako autorka nebo jako novin&aacute;\u0159ka. Jak&yacute; je stav debaty v&nbsp;N\u011bmecku a reakce na va&scaron;i knihu?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Verena:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Pro postavu u\u010ditelky v&nbsp;m&eacute; knize jsem m\u011bla jako vzor rovn\u011b\u017e u\u010ditelku, kter&aacute; o tom napsala dv\u011b knihy. M\u011bli jsme s&nbsp;t&iacute;m velk&yacute; probl&eacute;m, proto\u017ee se objevilo mnoho negativn&iacute;ch reakc&iacute;. Bylo \u0159e\u010deno: vy to nesm&iacute;te \u0159&iacute;kat, jste p\u0159ece u\u010ditelka. &Scaron;lo o to, \u017ee to byla \u017eena u\u010ditelka a mu\u017e u\u010ditel by to asi \u0159&iacute;kat mohl. J&aacute; jsem pro svou knihu nezaznamenala podobn&eacute; negativn&iacute; reakce, co\u017e je d&aacute;no t&iacute;m, \u017ee tam m&aacute;m ty t\u0159i dal&scaron;&iacute; perspektivy, a nakonec nen&iacute; z\u0159ejm&eacute;, co je m\u016fj vlastn&iacute; n&aacute;zor, tak\u017ee jsem se vlastn\u011b tak trochu skryla. P\u0159esto m&aacute;m pocit, \u017ee toto je n\u011bco, co m\u016f\u017ee sp&iacute;&scaron;e inspirovat k&nbsp;diskus&iacute;m.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Reakce na \u017eeny, kter&eacute; d\u011bti m&iacute;t necht\u011bj&iacute; nebo je nemaj&iacute; z&nbsp;r\u016fzn&yacute;ch d\u016fvod\u016f, jsou \u010dasto tak vyhrocen&eacute; i proto, \u017ee se patriarch&aacute;ln&iacute; spole\u010dnost boj&iacute; toho, co by ta \u017eena ud\u011blala se v&scaron;&iacute;m t&iacute;m \u010dasem, jestli by<\/strong><\/span>&nbsp;<span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong>n&aacute;hodou ne&scaron;la d\u011blat revoluci nebo n\u011bco takov&eacute;ho. Souhlas&iacute;te s&nbsp;touto tenz&iacute;? Mysl&iacute;te, \u017ee i tohle krom\u011b citliv&eacute; ot&aacute;zky \u0159e&scaron;en&iacute; klimatu m\u016f\u017ee b&yacute;t d\u016fvodem, pro\u010d na rozhodnut&iacute; nem&iacute;t d\u011bti \u010dasto spole\u010dnost reaguje tak vyhrocen\u011b?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Mn\u011b by vlastn\u011b p\u0159i&scaron;lo &scaron;koda, kdyby jenom \u017eeny bez d\u011bt&iacute; mohly d\u011blat revoluci. Revoltovat proti patriarch&aacute;tu m\u016f\u017eeme v&scaron;echny. Ale je pravda, \u017ee ur\u010dit&eacute; procento bezd\u011btn&yacute;ch \u017een bylo v\u017edycky, ono to nen&iacute; novum. Novinka je v&nbsp;tom, \u017ee jakoby najednou d&iacute;ky internetu, soci&aacute;ln&iacute;m s&iacute;t&iacute;m nebo i literatu\u0159e se d\u016fvod\u016fm dost&aacute;v&aacute; v&iacute;ce prostoru a s&nbsp;t&iacute;m souvis&iacute; to diven&iacute; se. Mn\u011b se moc l&iacute;b&iacute;, Vereno, jak tam m&aacute;te \u010d&aacute;st s&nbsp;Twitterem, kde nejv\u011bt&scaron;&iacute; shitstorm si ta u\u010ditelka z&iacute;sk&aacute; na soci&aacute;ln&iacute;ch s&iacute;t&iacute;ch.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">P\u0159ijde mi, \u017ee m&aacute;me \u010dasto tendence obhajovat sv&eacute; \u017eivotn&iacute; p\u0159&iacute;b\u011bhy. A vlastn\u011b v&nbsp;okam\u017eiku, kdy n\u011bkdo \u0159ekne: j&aacute; tenhle \u017eivot \u017e&iacute;t nechci, tak \u010dlov\u011bk potom vyr&aacute;\u017e&iacute; do nepochopiteln&eacute; bitvy, do agrese, proto\u017ee to znamen&aacute;, \u017ee n\u011bkdo napadl na&scaron;i zku&scaron;enost. On v&aacute;m t&iacute;m ne\u0159&iacute;k&aacute;, ten tv\u016fj \u017eivotn&iacute; p\u0159&iacute;b\u011bh ned&aacute;v&aacute; smysl, to, \u017ee m&aacute;&scaron; d\u011bti, je prost\u011b blbost, ale \u0159&iacute;k&aacute; ti jenom: moje cesta to nen&iacute;. Mysl&iacute;m si, \u017ee kniha Eva to d\u011bl&aacute; zaj&iacute;mav&yacute;m zp\u016fsobem, m\u016f\u017ee n&aacute;m d&aacute;t p\u0159esn\u011b nahl&eacute;dnout do t\u011bch d\u016fvod\u016f.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>M\u016f\u017ee b&yacute;t literatura bezpe\u010dn&yacute;m prostorem, kde m\u016f\u017eeme popsat v&scaron;echny vrstvy mate\u0159stv&iacute;, rodi\u010dovstv&iacute;, otcovstv&iacute;, p\u0159em&yacute;&scaron;len&iacute; o n\u011bm. Byl to, Vereno, v&aacute;&scaron; c&iacute;l, vytv&aacute;\u0159et mosty v&nbsp;tomto t&eacute;matu?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">J&aacute; jsem tam cht\u011bla m&iacute;t ty r\u016fzn&eacute; perspektivy. Vid\u011bla jsem, \u017ee kdy\u017e to popisuju z&nbsp;jedn&eacute; perspektivy, tak tudy cesta nevede. M\u011bla jsem pocit, jako by to byla jedin&aacute; odpov\u011b\u010f, nakonec jsem se tedy rozhodla pro ty \u010dty\u0159i \u017eeny, kter&eacute; maj&iacute; r\u016fzn&eacute; \u017eivotn&iacute; cesty.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Mystick&aacute; filozofka Sara Ruddick, kter&aacute; se ot&aacute;zce mate\u0159stv&iacute; v\u011bnovala, formovala n&aacute;sleduj&iacute;c&iacute; my&scaron;lenku. \u0158&iacute;k&aacute;: Matkou se st&aacute;v&aacute; ka\u017ed&aacute; osoba, kter&aacute; v\u011bdom\u011b, racion&aacute;ln\u011b a osobn\u011b se rozhodne p\u0159evz&iacute;t odpov\u011bdnost za \u017eivot a v&yacute;chovu d&iacute;t\u011bte. Mn\u011b to p\u0159ijde jako zaj&iacute;mav&aacute; perspektiva k&nbsp;p\u0159em&yacute;&scaron;len&iacute; o rodi\u010dovstv&iacute; i mate\u0159stv&iacute;. Jak&eacute; narativy, jak&eacute; p\u0159&iacute;b\u011bhy podle v&aacute;s je&scaron;t\u011b v&nbsp;literatu\u0159e ne\u010dteme? Co t\u0159eba v&aacute;m chyb&iacute;, o \u010dem byste cht\u011bly \u010d&iacute;st?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Mysl&iacute;m, \u017ee je to komplexn&iacute; t&eacute;ma p&eacute;\u010de jako takov&eacute;, proto\u017ee kdy\u017e se to dlouhodob\u011b bere jako n\u011bco, co se d\u011bje v&nbsp;dom&aacute;cnostech, co je priv&aacute;tn&iacute;, co podle statistik v&nbsp;drtiv&eacute; v\u011bt&scaron;in\u011b vykon&aacute;vaj&iacute; \u017eeny, na kter&eacute; to dopad&aacute; jako dal&scaron;&iacute; povinnost po placen&eacute; pr&aacute;ci, tak to je n\u011bco, co mi p\u0159ijde, \u017ee \u010dteme m&aacute;lo. &nbsp;Jsem v\u017edycky r&aacute;da, kdy\u017e se to dost&aacute;v&aacute; v&iacute;ce do pop\u0159ed&iacute;.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Vereno, m&aacute;te v&nbsp;N\u011bmecku n\u011bjak&eacute; knihy, kter&eacute; by se zam\u011b\u0159ovaly na queer rodi\u010dovstv&iacute;?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Verena:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Je toho ur\u010dit\u011b m&aacute;lo a mohlo by toho b&yacute;t daleko v&iacute;c.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Jak&eacute; knihy o mate\u0159stv&iacute; v&aacute;s osobn\u011b n\u011bjak prom\u011bnily? T\u0159eba i ten vztah, kter&yacute; k&nbsp;tomu t&eacute;matu m&aacute;te, vztah k&nbsp;vlastn&iacute; matce, k&nbsp;d&iacute;t\u011bti&hellip; Co zkr&aacute;tka pro v&aacute;s bylo transformativn&iacute; z&nbsp;literatury o mate\u0159stv&iacute;?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Pro m\u011b byla dost v&yacute;razn&aacute; zku&scaron;enost, kdy\u017e jsem asi ve dvan&aacute;cti letech \u010detla \u010desk&yacute; p\u0159eklad Hodin od Michaela Cuninghama, co\u017e p\u0159esn\u011b ukazuje to, o \u010dem jsme se bavily, \u017ee vlastn\u011b to nemus&iacute; b&yacute;t \u017eena, kter&aacute; p&iacute;&scaron;e o \u017eensk&eacute; zku&scaron;enosti. Je to p\u0159&iacute;b\u011bh, kde sleduje t\u0159i \u017eeny v&nbsp;r\u016fzn&yacute;ch \u010dasov&yacute;ch obdob&iacute;ch. Jeden z&nbsp;&uacute;b\u011b\u017en&iacute;k\u016f jejich \u017eivot\u016f je n\u011bjak&aacute; mate\u0159sk&aacute; zku&scaron;enost. V&nbsp;p\u0159&iacute;pad\u011b hauswife z&nbsp;50. let je to nejv&iacute;ce vid\u011bt. Ona p&aacute;ch&aacute; n\u011bjak&eacute; tabu, kter&eacute; od matek neradi vid&iacute;me, a zpracovat ho v&nbsp;um\u011bn&iacute;, abychom s&nbsp;tou postavou po\u0159&aacute;d n\u011bjak empatizovali, je t\u011b\u017ek&eacute;. Ona vlastn\u011b opou&scaron;t&iacute; svou rodinu. Do t&eacute; doby jsem nic takov&eacute;ho ne\u010detla. Tahle kniha pro m\u011b byla z&aacute;sadn&iacute; a dovedla m\u011b potom k&nbsp;Virginii Wolfov&eacute; atd.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Verena:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Miluji Elenu Ferrante, knihu, kde je matka, kter&aacute; sotva vypustila dcery z&nbsp;domu, vyd&aacute; se na pr&aacute;zdninovou cestu, kde p\u0159em&yacute;&scaron;l&iacute; o sv&eacute;m mate\u0159stv&iacute;, ob\u010das sv&eacute; d\u011bti opou&scaron;t\u011bla. Vid&iacute;me, \u017ee na jedn&eacute; stran\u011b se kv\u016fli tomu c&iacute;t&iacute; &scaron;patn\u011b, tr&aacute;p&iacute; ji to, na druhou stranu c&iacute;t&iacute; velkou svobodu, \u017ee d\u011bti jsou z&nbsp;domu a u\u017e je z&nbsp;toho tak\u0159&iacute;kaj&iacute;c venku.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Jak v&aacute;m psan&iacute; knih transformovalo vztah k&nbsp;Va&scaron;&iacute; matce nebo mate\u0159stv&iacute;? Co bylo jin&eacute; po dokon\u010den&iacute; t&eacute; knihy ne\u017e na za\u010d&aacute;tku?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Verena:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">J&aacute; m&aacute;m pocit, \u017ee se nic moc nezm\u011bnilo, krom\u011b toho, \u017ee jsem si ujasnila, co jsou moje vlastn&iacute; strachy. V&scaron;echny ty ot&aacute;zky jsou v&nbsp;knize, jenom\u017ee ta kniha nenab&iacute;z&iacute; \u0159e&scaron;en&iacute; ani odpov\u011b\u010f. J&aacute; sama ji vlastn\u011b nem&aacute;m. Co se t&yacute;\u010de vztahu k&nbsp;m&eacute; vlastn&iacute; matce, tak se mi l&iacute;bilo, \u017ee si tu knihu p\u0159e\u010detla. Zavolala mi a p&aacute;r v\u011bc&iacute; jsme spolu probraly, proto\u017ee zejm&eacute;na v&nbsp;posledn&iacute; \u010d&aacute;sti jsou ur\u010dit&eacute; anekdoty, kter&eacute; jsou odrazem na&scaron;eho vztahu.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">J&aacute; jsem to asi m\u011bla podobn\u011b. M&aacute;m pocit, \u017ee to nastartovalo n\u011bjakou konverzaci, kter&aacute; by jinak prob&iacute;hala obt&iacute;\u017en\u011b, nebo by neprob\u011bhla. Ale z&aacute;rove\u0148 mi to to t&eacute;ma cel&eacute; zproblematizovalo, proto\u017ee kdy\u017e mi pak chodily reakce \u010dten&aacute;\u0159\u016f a \u010dten&aacute;\u0159ek a jejich reflexe, tak jsem zjistila, kolik fazet tam toho t&eacute;matu je a jak&eacute; dal&scaron;&iacute; hlubiny se tam skr&yacute;vaj&iacute;. Mysl&iacute;m, \u017ee je to nekone\u010dn&eacute; t&eacute;ma.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Americk&aacute; spisovatelka Sarah Bucklay napsala o nemo\u017enosti postihnout v&scaron;echny ty fazety, o kter&yacute;ch, Kl&aacute;ro, mluv&iacute;&scaron;, popsala, co v&scaron;echno se vyjevuje, kdy\u017e o tom mate\u0159stv&iacute; uva\u017eujeme nebo kdy\u017e se o n\u011bm sna\u017e&iacute;me n\u011bco napsat. M\u011bly jste i vy p\u0159i psan&iacute; sv&yacute;ch knih pocit, \u017ee to prost\u011b nejde, \u017ee a\u0165 postihnete n\u011bkter&eacute; d\u016fle\u017eit&eacute; roviny toho t&eacute;matu, tak po\u0159&aacute;d n\u011bco chyb&iacute;, mo\u017en&aacute; i proto, \u017ee jde o tak v&yacute;sostn\u011b intimn&iacute; ot&aacute;zku.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Verena: <\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Ned&aacute; se vych&aacute;zet z&nbsp;toho, \u017ee jedna kniha k&nbsp;tomuto t&eacute;matu odhal&iacute; v&scaron;echno. Lid&eacute; se m\u011b ptaj&iacute;, pro\u010d jsem zvolila tyto \u010dty\u0159i perspektivy, kdy\u017e je&scaron;t\u011b existuj&iacute; je&scaron;t\u011b dal&scaron;&iacute;&hellip; proto\u017ee jsou to ty perspektivy, kter&eacute; m\u011b v&nbsp;tom okam\u017eiku zaj&iacute;maly. No a do jak&eacute; m&iacute;ry zaj&iacute;t do hloubky? Tak to se tak&eacute; samoz\u0159ejm\u011b li&scaron;&iacute;, z&aacute;le\u017e&iacute; na text, jestli to ten text v\u016fbec p\u0159ipust&iacute;. A jsem velice r&aacute;da, \u017ee existuje pestr&eacute; pole literatury na tohle t&eacute;ma.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">V&nbsp;okam\u017eiku, kdy si \u010dlov\u011bk zvol&iacute; jako autor n\u011bjakou postavu, tak se vlastn\u011b z\u0159&iacute;k&aacute; t\u011bch dal&scaron;&iacute;ch perspektiv. Asi by bylo nesmysln&eacute; v&nbsp;jedn&eacute; knize postihnout celou &scaron;&iacute;\u0159i t\u011bch p\u0159&iacute;stup\u016f. Vlast\u011b v&nbsp;t&eacute; specifi\u010dnosti a jedine\u010dnosti by m\u011bla b&yacute;t s&iacute;la toho sd\u011blen&iacute;.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><br \/>Ot&aacute;zka z&nbsp;publika<br \/><\/span><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Vereno, \u0159ekla bys n&aacute;m n\u011bco o mu\u017e&iacute;ch, kte\u0159&iacute; vystupuj&iacute; v&nbsp;tv&eacute;m rom&aacute;nu a maj&iacute; n\u011bjakou roli p\u0159i &uacute;vah&aacute;ch o mate\u0159stv&iacute;?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Ano, v&nbsp;knize jsou i mu\u017ei, nicm&eacute;n\u011b jsou to sp&iacute;&scaron; vedlej&scaron;&iacute; postavy.&nbsp;<\/span><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">T\u0159eba mu\u017e, kter&yacute; je v&nbsp;prvn&iacute; kapitole, je partnerem \u017eeny, kter&aacute; se sna\u017e&iacute; ot\u011bhotn\u011bt, ale nejde j&iacute; to. Jsou spolu u\u017e mnoho let. Zat&iacute;mco ona od za\u010d&aacute;tku pochybuje, jemu je to jasn&eacute; &ndash; chci d\u011bti, je to smysl m&eacute;ho \u017eivota, nic jin&eacute;ho nep\u0159ipad&aacute; v&nbsp;&uacute;vahu. Tak trochu podobn&eacute; je to ve t\u0159et&iacute; kapitole. Tam je to tak, \u017ee \u017eena ot\u011bhotn&iacute; sp&iacute;&scaron;e omylem. Ti mu\u017ei v&nbsp;t&eacute; knize jsou v&nbsp;pohod\u011b, \u0159&iacute;kaj&iacute;: tak se do toho pust&iacute;me, zvl&aacute;dneme to. A j&aacute; to vid&iacute;m ve sv&eacute;m okol&iacute;, \u017ee mu\u017ei \u0159eknou rychleji: tak jo, budeme m&iacute;t d\u011bti. Mo\u017en&aacute; proto, \u017ee potom neponesou tak t\u011b\u017ek&eacute; n&aacute;sledky jako \u017eeny.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra<\/strong>:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">J&aacute; m&aacute;m v&nbsp;knih&aacute;ch tak&eacute; mu\u017ee, trp&iacute;m autorsk&yacute;m ne&scaron;varem, \u017ee b\u011bhem psan&iacute; knihy o nich \u010dasto p\u0159em&yacute;&scaron;l&iacute;m a potom je v&nbsp;n\u011bjak&yacute; moment zabiju. Kdy\u017e jsem si rozm&yacute;&scaron;lela ten rom&aacute;n, tak hrdinka m\u011bla man\u017eela, ale bohu\u017eel nep\u0159e\u017eil verzi nula.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Na \u010dem te\u010f pracujete, na co se m\u016f\u017eeme t\u011b&scaron;it?<\/p>\n<p>Verena:<\/strong><\/span><br \/><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">J&aacute; jsem pr&aacute;v\u011b za\u010dala pracovat na nov&eacute;m textu, kter&yacute; se to\u010d&iacute; kolem t&eacute;matu \u017eeny, krize st\u0159edn&iacute;ho v\u011bku.<\/span><br \/><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\"><strong><br \/>Kl&aacute;ra:<\/strong><\/span><br \/><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">V publiku sed&iacute; m\u016fj redaktor Vojta Stan\u011bk, tak\u017ee j&aacute; mus&iacute;m tro&scaron;ku lh&aacute;t, v\u017edycky ml\u017e&iacute;m, kdy\u017e se m\u011b pt&aacute;, na \u010dem pracuju. Tak\u017ee ur\u010dit\u011b na n\u011b\u010dem hodn\u011b pracuju, je to v&iacute;cem&eacute;n\u011b skoro napsan&eacute;, tak\u017ee n\u011bjak to jde.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-size: 12pt;\">Text a foto: Kate\u0159ina \u017d&iacute;dkov&aacute;<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jak sou\u010dasn\u00e1 literatura reflektuje zd\u00e1nliv\u011b prost\u00e9 t\u00e9ma mate\u0159stv\u00ed? Na pra\u017esk\u00e9m kni\u017en\u00edm veletrhu n\u00e1s zaujala beseda s n\u011bmeckou spisovatelkou Verenou Kessler, kter\u00e1 zde p\u0159edstavila sv\u016fj rom\u00e1n Eva, jen\u017e spojuje t\u00e9ma mate\u0159stv\u00ed a klimatick\u00e9 krize. Knihu vydalo \u010desk\u00e9 nakladatelstv\u00ed Prostor. Na besed\u011b s n\u00ed debatovala \u010desk\u00e1 autorka Kl\u00e1ra Vlas\u00e1kov\u00e1, moder\u00e1torkou byla novin\u00e1\u0159ka Linda Barto\u0161ov\u00e1.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":331726,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_EventAllDay":false,"_EventTimezone":"","_EventStartDate":"","_EventEndDate":"","_EventStartDateUTC":"","_EventEndDateUTC":"","_EventShowMap":false,"_EventShowMapLink":false,"_EventURL":"","_EventCost":"","_EventCostDescription":"","_EventCurrencySymbol":"","_EventCurrencyCode":"","_EventCurrencyPosition":"","_EventDateTimeSeparator":"","_EventTimeRangeSeparator":"","_EventOrganizerID":[],"_EventVenueID":[],"_OrganizerEmail":"","_OrganizerPhone":"","_OrganizerWebsite":"","_VenueAddress":"","_VenueCity":"","_VenueCountry":"","_VenueProvince":"","_VenueState":"","_VenueZip":"","_VenuePhone":"","_VenueURL":"","_VenueStateProvince":"","_VenueLat":"","_VenueLng":"","_VenueShowMap":false,"_VenueShowMapLink":false,"twitterCardType":"","cardImageID":0,"cardImage":"","cardTitle":"","cardDesc":"","cardImageAlt":"","cardPlayer":"","cardPlayerWidth":0,"cardPlayerHeight":0,"cardPlayerStream":"","cardPlayerCodec":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[21848],"class_list":["post-331725","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-rozhovor","tag-revue"],"acf":{"related_products":null},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/331725","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=331725"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/331725\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/331726"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=331725"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=331725"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=331725"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}