{"id":14430,"date":"2020-10-09T12:15:22","date_gmt":"2020-10-09T10:15:22","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/?p=14430"},"modified":"2020-10-09T12:15:22","modified_gmt":"2020-10-09T10:15:22","slug":"tomas-etzler-jeptisky-vsem-detem-rikaji-tchien-nebe","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/rozhovor\/tomas-etzler-jeptisky-vsem-detem-rikaji-tchien-nebe\/","title":{"rendered":"Tom\u00e1\u0161 Etzler: Jepti\u0161ky v\u0161em d\u011btem \u0159\u00edkaj\u00ed Tchien \u2013 Nebe"},"content":{"rendered":"

\u201eMao Ce-tungovi se v \u010c\u00edn\u011b poda\u0159ilo zni\u010dit jak\u00e9koli duchovno, jakoukoli mor\u00e1lku, soucit\u2026,\u201c \u0159\u00edk\u00e1 o ko\u0159enech sou\u010dasn\u00e9ho nelidstv\u00ed v \u010c\u00edn\u011b Tom\u00e1\u0161 Etzler, jedin\u00fd \u010desk\u00fd novin\u00e1\u0159 s ocen\u011bn\u00edm Emmy. P\u0159in\u00e1\u0161\u00edme v\u00e1m v\u00fdb\u011br z\u00a0rozhovoru z\u00a0\u0159\u00edjnov\u00e9ho magaz\u00ednu Page.<\/strong><\/p>\n

Pro\u010d jsou t\u00e9matem va\u0161eho dokumentu Nebe sirotci?<\/strong>
\nN\u011bkdy v roce 2012 jsme sed\u011bli s tehdej\u00ad\u0161\u00edmi kolegy, produk\u010dn\u00ed Connie a ka\u00admeramanem Nathanem v za\u0161v\u00e1ben\u00e9 redakci v Pekingu a p\u0159em\u00fd\u0161leli jsme, \u017ee by bylo skv\u011bl\u00e9 to\u010dit dokumenty. Ne\u00adm\u011bli jsme ale ani \u010das, ani pen\u00edze. V\u011bd\u011bl jsem, \u017ee mus\u00edme naj\u00edt prost\u0159ed\u00ed, kde str\u00e1v\u00edme t\u00fdden a vylezeme se siln\u00fdm p\u0159\u00edb\u011bhem. \u017de nem\u016f\u017eeme zpracov\u00e1vat t\u00e9mata, kv\u016fli kter\u00fdm bychom museli jezdit po cel\u00e9 \u010c\u00edn\u011b, a u\u017e v\u016fbec ne po cel\u00e9m sv\u011bt\u011b. Napadl m\u011b bu\u010f \u010d\u00ednsk\u00fd sirot\u010dinec, nebo afgh\u00e1nsk\u00e9 v\u011bzen\u00ed\u2026 Dostat se do sirot\u010dince trvalo nakonec cel\u00fdch osm m\u011bs\u00edc\u016f. Psali jsme na mnoh\u00e1 m\u00edsta, do n\u011bkolika sirot\u010dinc\u016f n\u00e1s pustili, mluvili s n\u00e1mi, ale nat\u00e1\u010det n\u00e1m nedovolili. Po\u0159\u00e1d jsme si mysleli, \u017ee objev\u00edme n\u011bjak\u00fd horor, n\u011bco podob\u00adn\u00e9ho jako z\u00e1b\u011bry z rusk\u00fdch sirot\u010dinc\u016f z devades\u00e1t\u00fdch let\u2026<\/p>\n

To byste pravd\u011bpodobn\u011b objevili, kdybyste se dostali do st\u00e1tn\u00edho sirot\u010dince \u2013 aspo\u0148 podle n\u011bkolika z\u00e1b\u011br\u016f z archivu, kter\u00e9 v dokumentu ukazujete…<\/strong>
\nNakonec jsme objevili p\u0159esn\u011b opa\u010dn\u00fd sv\u011bt, ne\u017e jsme \u010dekali. Sv\u011bt, kter\u00fd byl tak stra\u0161n\u011b vzd\u00e1len\u00fd od \u010c\u00edny, kterou j\u00e1 poznal! Kdy\u017e jsme byli asi v polovin\u011b nat\u00e1\u010den\u00ed, pustil jsem \u00faryvky spiso\u00advatelce Radce Denemarkov\u00e9, kter\u00e1 v \u010c\u00edn\u011b \u017eila a velice dob\u0159e ji poznala \u2013 a jej\u00ed prvn\u00ed reakce byla, \u017ee to na m\u011b nahr\u00e1li, myslela si, \u017ee je to fingovan\u00e9. N\u00e1\u0161 sirot\u010dinec je toti\u017e pro tu \u010c\u00ednu unik\u00e1tn\u00ed! A my ho tedy museli d\u00e1t do kontrastu t\u00e9 \u010d\u00ednsk\u00e9 spole\u010dnosti bez zn\u00e1mek soucitu, empatie. Museli jsme doplnit fakta, re\u00e1lie, a\u017e jsem se nakonec nechal p\u0159esv\u011bd\u010dit, \u017ee to nikdo nevysv\u011btl\u00ed s takov\u00fdm zaujet\u00edm, emoce\u00admi a autenticitou jako j\u00e1. Dokumen\u00adtem Nebe tedy vypr\u00e1v\u00edme dva paraleln\u00ed p\u0159\u00edb\u011bhy \u2013 p\u0159\u00edb\u011bh sirot\u010dince a p\u0159\u00edb\u011bh m\u016fj. A navzdory o\u010dek\u00e1v\u00e1n\u00ed ten film nen\u00ed negativn\u00ed. Je tvrd\u00fd, syrov\u00fd, ale d\u00edky unik\u00e1tnosti sirot\u010dince je v\u00fdsledek pozitivn\u00ed, dokument obsahuje nad\u011bji.<\/p>\n

V kulis\u00e1ch nelidsky p\u016fsob\u00edc\u00ed \u010c\u00edny je v\u00e1\u0161 sirot\u010dinec takov\u00fdm ostr\u016fvkem l\u00e1sky, pokory\u2026 Cht\u011bl jste t\u00edm dokumentem n\u011bco zm\u011bnit?<\/strong>
\nNic. Nem\u00e1m takov\u00e9 ambice. Cht\u011bl jsem jen vytvo\u0159it obraz \u010c\u00edny, jak jsem ji vid\u011bl, jak jsem ji vn\u00edmal, jak jsem ji za\u00ad\u017eil. Cht\u011bl jsem lidem uk\u00e1zat sirot\u010dinec jako n\u011bco, co m\u011b v t\u00e9 zemi v dobr\u00e9m slova smyslu p\u0159ekvapilo. Ten sirot\u010dinec jsem objevil na sam\u00e9m konci sv\u00e9ho p\u016fsoben\u00ed v \u010c\u00edn\u011b.<\/p>\n

Tak\u017ee jste d\u00edky n\u011bmu ze zem\u011b odch\u00e1zel bez ho\u0159kosti na jazyku?<\/strong>
\nAno. Ti, kte\u0159\u00ed se tam o sirotky staraj\u00ed, jsou norm\u00e1ln\u00ed lid\u00e9. Lid\u00e9 schopn\u00ed bezpodm\u00edne\u010dn\u00e9 l\u00e1sky, ob\u011btavosti, tolerance a empatie k bli\u017en\u00edmu. Lid\u00e9, kte\u0159\u00ed dok\u00e1\u017eou projevovat city. Proto\u017ee je jim to dovolen\u00e9, proto\u017ee mohou. D\u011bti tu vyr\u016fstaj\u00ed v jin\u00fdch hodnotov\u00fdch syst\u00e9mech, ne\u017e jak\u00e9 v\u0161em ve zbytku \u010c\u00edny nut\u00ed komunistick\u00e1 strana. Pro m\u011b je sirot\u010dinec d\u016fkaz, \u017ee pravda a l\u00e1ska funguj\u00ed.<\/p>\n

Pro\u010d se dokument jmenuje Nebe?<\/strong>
\nProto\u017ee kdy\u017e do sirot\u010dince p\u0159ich\u00e1zej\u00ed d\u011bti, nemaj\u00ed \u017e\u00e1dn\u00e9 doklady, nemaj\u00ed rodn\u00e9 listy, nemaj\u00ed jm\u00e9na. A jepti\u0161ky tedy v\u0161em \u0159\u00edkaj\u00ed Tchien. Nebe.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

Jak\u00e9 byly va\u0161e roky v \u010c\u00edn\u011b?<\/strong>
\nStra\u0161n\u00e9. Dodnes to vst\u0159eb\u00e1v\u00e1m. M\u00e1m jeden vnit\u0159n\u00ed boj: Bylo to v\u016fbec k n\u011b\u00ad\u010demu? Sna\u017eil jsem se d\u011blat poctivou pr\u00e1ci pro n\u011bkolik stanic, ale st\u00e1lo to za to? M\u00e1m rozepsanou knihu o sedmi letech v \u010c\u00edn\u011b, kter\u00e1 je takov\u00e1 moje terapie a mo\u017en\u00e1 si d\u00edky n\u00ed odpov\u00edm, jestli to byla ztr\u00e1ta \u010dasu, jestli jsem vyhodil sedm let \u017eivota z okna, abych si odtud p\u0159ivezl astma. P\u0159ed t\u00edm jsem byl \u010dtrn\u00e1ct let ve Spojen\u00fdch st\u00e1tech, rok v Berl\u00edn\u011b, kde jsem nav\u0161t\u011bvoval koncerty, jezdil jsem ly\u017eovat\u2026 V \u010c\u00edn\u011b ne\u0161lo d\u011blat nic. Nechci b\u00fdt hrub\u00fd, ale kdy\u017e uvid\u00edte jeden \u010d\u00ednsk\u00fd buddhistick\u00fd chr\u00e1m, jako byste je vid\u011bli v\u0161echny. Pamatuji si, jak jsem byl nad\u0161en\u00fd, kdy\u017e se mi v roce 2013 ozvalo CNN, jestli bych mohl nato\u010dit report\u00e1\u017e o volb\u011b pape\u017ee ve Vatik\u00e1nu. V\u011bd\u011bli, \u017ee jsem zrovna v Asii, ale pot\u0159ebovali ka\u017edou ruku. J\u00e1 se pak po ve\u010derech toulal po \u0158\u00edm\u011b, architektonick\u00e1 rozmanitost toho m\u011bsta je neuv\u011b\u0159iteln\u00e1. Tehdy jsem si \u0159\u00edkal: Kde je \u010d\u00ednsk\u00e1 gotika? Kde je \u010d\u00ednsk\u00e1 renesance? Kde je \u010d\u00ednsk\u00e9 baro\u00adko? V\u017edy\u0165 je jejich kultura tak star\u00e1! Postavili Velkou \u010d\u00ednskou ze\u010f, ale ze\u010f postav\u00ed ka\u017ed\u00fd blbec. I j\u00e1! Kde je \u010d\u00ednsk\u00fd Dostojevskij? Kde je \u010d\u00ednsk\u00fd Puccini? Co je ta jejich kultura? Kaligrafie?<\/p>\n

Aspo\u0148 to Zak\u00e1zan\u00e9 m\u011bsto v Pekingu z\u016fstalo!<\/strong>
\nMao ho cht\u011bl ale zbo\u0159it, proto\u017ee tam nebyla elekt\u0159ina ani kanalizace. Na\u0161t\u011bs\u00adt\u00ed mu to n\u011bkdo rozmluvil.<\/p>\n

Vid\u00edte \u010c\u00ednu jako kr\u00e1snou zemi se stra\u0161n\u00fdm re\u017eimem?<\/strong>
\nP\u0159esn\u011b! St\u00e1le \u010c\u00ednu doporu\u010duju v\u0161em cestovatel\u016fm, kte\u0159\u00ed maj\u00ed r\u00e1di vzru\u0161en\u00ed, nep\u0159edv\u00eddatelnost, kte\u0159\u00ed maj\u00ed dobro\u00addru\u017en\u00e9ho ducha. Ale \u017e\u00edt tam sedm let? M\u016fj otec byl profesor literatury a divadeln\u00ed kritik, maminka zp\u011bva\u010d\u00adka v opern\u00edm sboru, s bratrem jsme vyrostli v divadle. \u010c\u00edna pro m\u011b byla naprost\u00e1 kulturn\u00ed pou\u0161\u0165. Semlelo m\u011b to a po\u0159\u00e1d se z toho vzpamatov\u00e1v\u00e1m.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

Nem\u00e1te \u017e\u00e1dnou vysn\u011bnou zemi?<\/strong>
\nL\u00edbilo se mi v Berl\u00edn\u011b. A kdy\u017e pomi\u00adneme, jak nebezpe\u010dn\u00fd \u010dlov\u011bk tam te\u010f vl\u00e1dne, st\u00fdsk\u00e1 se mi po Spojen\u00fdch st\u00e1tech. Tu zemi jsem \u010dtrn\u00e1ct let naz\u00fdval domovem, po\u0159\u00e1d se tam r\u00e1d vrac\u00edm. A na rozd\u00edl od \u010c\u00edny tady st\u00e1le vl\u00e1dne pr\u00e1vo, politici tu nestoj\u00ed nad z\u00e1konem. J\u00e1 cht\u011bl hlavn\u011b znovu \u017e\u00edt, bylo mi jedno kde. Cht\u011bl jsem znovu vid\u011bt oblohu, znovu chodit do divadla, na koncerty, cht\u011bl jsem znovu l\u00e9zt nebo ly\u017eovat. Znovu d\u00fdchat. \u017d\u00edt jako norm\u00e1ln\u00ed \u010dlov\u011bk.<\/p>\n

Co v\u00e1s \u010c\u00edna nau\u010dila?<\/strong>
\nT\u0159eba \u017ee nen\u00ed v\u0161echno zlato, co se t\u0159pyt\u00ed, kolikr\u00e1t je pot\u0159eba se v\u011bcem pod\u00edvat pod povrch. Nau\u010dila m\u011b jist\u00e9 poko\u0159e \u2013 p\u0159ijel jsem tam s pocitem, \u017ee u\u017e m\u00e1m v\u0161echno zm\u00e1knut\u00fd, p\u0159e\u017eil jsem p\u0159ece Ir\u00e1k i Afgh\u00e1nist\u00e1n, nato\u010dil jsem tam report\u00e1\u017ee, kter\u00e9 z\u00edsk\u00e1valy ceny, ale \u010c\u00edna m\u011b z toho propleskla. Dneska tvrd\u00edm, \u017ee \u010c\u00edna je nejt\u011b\u017e\u0161\u00ed zem\u011b, kde jsem pracoval. Nau\u010dila m\u011b ale tak\u00e9, \u017ee tam navzdory re\u017eimu, na kter\u00fd m\u016f\u017ee\u00adme tis\u00edckr\u00e1t nad\u00e1vat, \u017eij\u00ed skv\u011bl\u00ed lid\u00e9. V\u0161ichni jsou komunismem dot\u010den\u00ed, ovlivn\u011bn\u00ed. Obyvatel\u00e9 Tchaj-wanu nebo Hongkongu jsou stejn\u00e1 etnick\u00e1 skupi\u00adna jako \u010c\u00ed\u0148an\u00e9, ale co se stalo s \u010c\u00ed\u0148any ve stovk\u00e1ch milionech p\u0159\u00edpad\u016f, je pro m\u011b stra\u0161liv\u00fdm sv\u011bdectv\u00edm, jak\u00e9 \u0161kody m\u016f\u017ee nap\u00e1chat komunistick\u00e1 ideologie na lidech, jak\u00fdm zp\u016fsobem je m\u016f\u017ee deformovat, zni\u010dit je. Pl\u00e1noval jsem nato\u010dit p\u0159\u00edb\u011bh Hongkongu a Pekingu, ta dv\u011b m\u011bsta porovnat. Hongkong je \u010dist\u0161\u00ed, civilizovan\u011bj\u0161\u00ed, lid\u00e9 se tu chovaj\u00ed zdvo\u0159ileji, jen i tady mi chyb\u011bla kultura, je to m\u011bsto pen\u011bz a obchodu. Ale pozor: te\u010f se bav\u00edm o Hongkongu p\u0159ed deseti lety. V\u010dera jsem vid\u011bl stra\u0161liv\u00e9 z\u00e1b\u011bry, jak tu t\u011b\u017ekood\u011bnci za\u00adt\u00fdkali dvan\u00e1ctiletou hol\u010di\u010dku, porazili na zem malou vystra\u0161enou \u0161kola\u010dku ve \u0161koln\u00ed uniform\u011b!<\/p>\n

Cel\u00fd rozhovor si m\u016f\u017eete p\u0159e\u010d\u00edst v \u0159\u00edjnov\u00e9m vyd\u00e1n\u00ed magaz\u00ednu Page.<\/em><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

\"\"<\/p>\n

Dokument Nebe
\n<\/strong>Nebe je celove\u010dern\u00ed do\u00adkument Tom\u00e1\u0161e Etzlera, kter\u00fd vypr\u00e1v\u00ed p\u0159\u00edb\u011bh \u010c\u00edny prost\u0159ednictv\u00edm sirot\u010din\u00adce v mal\u00e9 severo\u010d\u00ednsk\u00e9 vesnici. Spravuj\u00ed ho ka\u00adtolick\u00e9 jepti\u0161ky, form\u00e1ln\u011b v \u010c\u00edn\u011b neleg\u00e1ln\u00ed, pojme p\u0159es sto d\u011bt\u00ed. V\u0161ichni trp\u00ed ment\u00e1ln\u00edm nebo fyzic\u00adk\u00fdm posti\u017een\u00edm. Film \u0159e\u0161\u00ed nejv\u011bt\u0161\u00ed t\u00e9mata modern\u00ed \u010c\u00edny: politiku jednoho d\u00edt\u011bte, lidsk\u00e1 pr\u00e1va, nedostatek svobody n\u00e1bo\u017eensk\u00e9ho vyzn\u00e1n\u00ed i korupce.<\/em><\/p>\n

Pavl\u00edna Saudkov\u00e1 (autorka a fotografie)<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u201eMao Ce-tungovi se v \u010c\u00edn\u011b poda\u0159ilo zni\u010dit jak\u00e9koli duchovno, jakoukoli mor\u00e1lku, soucit\u2026,\u201c \u0159\u00edk\u00e1 o ko\u0159enech sou\u010dasn\u00e9ho nelidstv\u00ed v \u010c\u00edn\u011b Tom\u00e1\u0161 Etzler, jedin\u00fd \u010desk\u00fd novin\u00e1\u0159 s ocen\u011bn\u00edm Emmy. P\u0159in\u00e1\u0161\u00edme v\u00e1m v\u00fdb\u011br […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":14432,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"_EventAllDay":false,"_EventTimezone":"","_EventStartDate":"","_EventEndDate":"","_EventStartDateUTC":"","_EventEndDateUTC":"","_EventShowMap":false,"_EventShowMapLink":false,"_EventURL":"","_EventCost":"","_EventCostDescription":"","_EventCurrencySymbol":"","_EventCurrencyCode":"","_EventCurrencyPosition":"","_EventDateTimeSeparator":"","_EventTimeRangeSeparator":"","_EventOrganizerID":[],"_EventVenueID":[],"_OrganizerEmail":"","_OrganizerPhone":"","_OrganizerWebsite":"","_VenueAddress":"","_VenueCity":"","_VenueCountry":"","_VenueProvince":"","_VenueState":"","_VenueZip":"","_VenuePhone":"","_VenueURL":"","_VenueStateProvince":"","_VenueLat":"","_VenueLng":"","_VenueShowMap":false,"_VenueShowMapLink":false,"twitterCardType":"","cardImageID":0,"cardImage":"","cardTitle":"","cardDesc":"","cardImageAlt":"","cardPlayer":"","cardPlayerWidth":0,"cardPlayerHeight":0,"cardPlayerStream":"","cardPlayerCodec":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[8],"tags":[20942,20973,20715,20976,20714,20974,18344,20912,20975,20972],"class_list":["post-14430","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-rozhovor","tag-cina","tag-dokument","tag-magazin","tag-nebe","tag-page","tag-publicistika","tag-rozhovor","tag-sirotci","tag-svoboda","tag-tomas-etzler"],"acf":{"related_products":null},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14430","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=14430"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14430\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/14432"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=14430"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=14430"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.luxor.cz\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=14430"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}